Beyond Business Podcast Ep 11

Written By Debbie Lee

Episode 11

Know yourself first with Rachael Cumberland-Dodd

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EPISODE SUMMARY

Join me as I talk with Rachael Cumberland Dodd of Feed Marketing. Rachael is an ex-corporate marketer turned niche-whisperer & messaging guide. She helps unknown, unconventional biz owners who want to do-good get to the heart of what they do, why they do it and for whom, so they can market their mission with ease and attract best-fit clients.

At the core of Rachael’s message is “start with you, not who”. In this episode we dive into the importance of getting to know yourself first, as a way of discovering the work that you are meant for. As well as sharing practical tips on how to get started with this, Rachael also shares her own squiggly career path from the world of corporate marketing to where she is now.

Over the course of the conversation Rachael gives her own take on lots of hot topics in the world of marketing from finding and pursuing a personal mission, understanding your 'why', and taking sustainable actions to build community.

Rachael shares three questions that any business owner can use to help uncover a bit more about the ‘why’ behind your work:

1, What's the mission you're going on?

2, What other people would resonate with that mission?

3, How do you help them?

If you give these a go and would like to share your answers, feel free to reach out to Rachael using any of the links below.

CONNECT WITH RACHAEL

If you would like to find out more about Rachael and her work you can connect with her in the following places:

MORE WAYS TO GO BEYOND BUSINESS

Got a topic you’d like to request or a guest to recommend? Drop me an email

 

EPISODE TRANSCRIPTION

00:03 - Debbie (Host)

Welcome to Beyond Business the podcast, the show for impact driven egopreneurs who want to be part of a bigger change and make a difference that reaches beyond your business alone. This week on the podcast, I am delighted to be talking with Rachel Cumberland-Odd of Feed Marketing. Rachel is an ex-corporate marketer turned niche whisperer and messaging guide. She helps unknown, unconventional business owners who want to do good to get to the heart of what they do, why they do it and for who they do it, so that they can market their mission with ease and attract their best fit clients. Core to Rachel's message is that we need to know ourselves first before we can know the work that we were made for, and that's what we're diving into in today's episode. So I hope you enjoy. All right, that should be us on air. Hello, it was like flashing red lights to go with that.

01:11

In a studio? Do I just really feel like we're in a studio? But a very good morning to you, rachel. Thank you for making it through what you were sharing about your dramatic Heelstone storm this morning. I'm glad you've like reached the other side of that.

01:28 - Rachael (Guest)

It was biblical this morning, but I'm really I'm happy to be here. I'm really looking forward to our conversation, so thank you for your invitation.

01:36 - Debbie (Host)

You're so welcome. You're so welcome, and I wonder, apart from having been pummeled by Heelstone, I wonder how you're arriving today.

01:47 - Rachael (Guest)

Oh, what a great question I was thinking about, instead of just saying how are you? And the response being oh, final, good, how are you arriving so wonderful? And you know, I'm arriving with excitement. I love connecting with people and talking about the work I do, but I'm arriving with power as well. I'm feeling a shift in my own, in a landscape, so my back is straight. You know, I've got a big grin on my face and I'm just ready. So, yeah, that's how I'm arriving.

02:18 - Debbie (Host)

Woohoo, I love that poised and ready. Yeah, poised and ready for sure I would just send you before I really sense I have your vibrancy. This year has been still apparent to me. I'm like a Mckin reader. I'll do a plug now. I'm a keen reader of your newsletter and I just love like this year there's been so much personality really oozing out of it. I really yeah, I really had that sense of you, like that poised and readiness from you throughout this year.

02:50 - Rachael (Guest)

Yeah, definitely, thank you, because it's you know, I've have I been consciously doing it, yes, but also unconsciously, something's been coming through me and I've just been, you know, letting it in, letting it out and just really enjoying it, really enjoying it, and that's obviously. I think that's showing on the page, I think.

03:08 - Debbie (Host)

Yeah, absolutely what a great point, like what a great point to start this conversation with. It feels so apt. Enjoy what you do. Yeah, exactly, there's the message right there. But yeah, the other thing I love about your work is what you call yourself. So you call yourself a messaging guide and a niche whisperer, and to me there's something like quite magical about that descriptor. But yeah, I also think it's a bit rebellious as well, given, especially given your background in corporate marketing, and so I wonder can you tell us a bit more about what it means to be a messaging guide and a niche whisperer?

03:54 - Rachael (Guest)

Yeah, definitely. Well, thank you for picking up on the title, first of all because that I kind of flip flopped between going is this really? I haven't got a better word than wanking. I'm sorry, I'm gonna have to say it. Is this really wanky? Is this really like, or is this really strong and powerful? And I think it's strong and powerful because I believe it.

04:14

And I guess let me start with the niche whispering, and I think a niche has got such a bad rap really, and I'm here to say that I think niche is the most generous thing you can do in your business, which might be a bit of an old statement to some people, but I think this is huge misconception. That niche is just about the who, the person that you work with, and they have to be a female, like a 40, recently divorced, with a small business and one child lives on an island. That's me, by the way. That has, you know, is that it, and it's not who. It's so much more than that. But it's niching is about recognizing all those different wonderful things that are inside you and doubling down on them and really and mostly really really owning it. So it's not your who at all. It's like you know that could be your niche, could be your world view, it could be the way, the lens in which you see the world. You know it could be your style. Like you know, an artist Picasso or Andy Warhol had a particular style. That was their niche, that appealed to certain people and not to others. Obviously, it could be your who, and it's really important to have a sense of that who that person is. But you know, but it's also what you offer in the transformation. So it's this hybrid of all these beautiful things that just firstly come from within you.

05:41

So when I'm doing any niche work, we never start with the who, we start with the you, we start with what it is about you. And I think, if you can, you know, cast your mind back to the work we did originally on this. It felt really freeing, didn't it? It felt really empowering to talk about what you were and what you were all about and how your past experiences and expertise have sort of brought you to this place of and this is what you've got to offer. So that's my view of niching, and I think that's why the whispering comes up, because my job is not to give you a niche, it's not to apply it to you. It's to kind of, you know, whisper it out of you like snake, charmer it out of you because it's in there, just needs kind of just bringing forth. So, yeah, that's the niche, amazing.

06:29 - Debbie (Host)

I love it. And it's funny when you said like I really really like instantly recognise that as a super part of yours and like I find, when we had our sessions together, like it was so easy to just let the words spill out of me. It was like I think, when I and I know, like many other people, like when we go to figure out I'm using my air quotes you know figure out our niche, it's can be a very paper based exercise, like you want to go and like figure it all out yeah, on a piece of paper, whereas actually, like what I find so unique and like super refreshing. But your approach was like the point was to let the words flow, like all I had to do was let it come out. And you had this super skill of picking out these little bits, like these little nuggets, let's say, and I was like yes, that's the thing, that's the thing. And like once you get enough of those to piece together, then grab a go, the niche is already there.

07:35 - Rachael (Guest)

Yeah, absolutely, that's so. Thank you, that's so nice to hear, so like empowering to hear how it was from your point of view, and that's it. And the big thing is that it always evolves as well. You know like we evolve, constantly changing. Yeah, as well. So I think that's the other fear about it. If I pick this niche, then I have to do this for the next 12 years. Well, look, you can do it. You try it. You do it for six months. It feels right right now. Go for it, try it and it will evolve, and what you'll get back then is data. You know that you know this.

08:12 - Debbie (Host)

you're a scientist, you get things.

08:14 - Rachael (Guest)

It's insight, it's data that didn't work, but my gosh, that worked. All that felt good. All that didn't feel quite so good, and that's the journey we're on.

08:24

So, that's the niche whispering bit, I think. Then the messaging guide bit is the sort of next stage of that, and then the job really is to take this that feels really powerful and strong inside you and wrap it up, put a ribbon around it, put it in a package, put it in the right color paper, and that's what messaging is for me. It's just a way of you, you know, wrapping it up, putting it, the key words around it, the key thoughts around it, and presenting it to someone else. It's the present, it's a gift.

08:59

And that's why the messaging bit. You know, that's how that feels to me. That's the metaphor I have in my head when I think about messaging. It's how we wrap it and how we gift it.

09:10 - Debbie (Host)

I love that. Do you know what instantly springs to my mind when you say that you know those innocent smoothie?

09:16 - Rachael (Guest)

Oh yeah, my favorite wrap.

09:18 - Debbie (Host)

Yeah, it's like there we go. Like when you talk about wrapping it up, that feels like a really literal example of that. Like their messaging literally is on their packaging they're so powerful and so strong, and like that's the thing that springs to mind when I think of innocent smoothies. Like ironically it's not the smoothies themselves, it's the message that goes with it.

09:40 - Rachael (Guest)

It's everything, and that would have come from some really serious branding work.

09:44

you know, you don't just accidentally jump upon that, but that would have ultimately come from conversations similar to the ones that I have with people. It's like well, what are you all about? What are you for, what turns you on, what turns you off? You know, what place do you wanna play in? What sandbox do you wanna play in? That's, these are sort of conversations that they would have had and that's all messaging is. It's an expression of that really clear clarity of that niche. It's just an expression and it's done in words. Oh, it's done in the logo and the branding and the colors and the fonts and how you present this and how you present that. But it's just the expression of that of you really.

10:26 - Debbie (Host)

Yeah, I love it. Your brand like that's yeah, yeah, I really get that. So I was wanting to pick up on what you said about it evolving and maybe like your own wiggly path that you're getting for your for your own journey of evolution. Let's say so, yeah, I wonder if you could share a little bit more about what led you to where you are, and particularly like that switch from corporate, the corporate career path.

10:58 - Rachael (Guest)

Yeah. So I was a died in the world corporate market here and I wanted nothing more than the status, the corner office, the car, the everything that for me, the younger version of me was where I was heading. And then I had this moment and I think it happens to a lot of us, and certainly women of a certain age who were coming into our you know, but it's third age or second half our life where we turn less outward and more inwards, and I was increasingly unhappy with the work I was doing. It felt meaningless. It felt it was all about the pounds and the pence and not about the people. And I realized that I mean God, this took a long, a couple of years as well. This wasn't an instant shift, but I realized that this world wasn't right for me anymore and I had a few sort of moments. One of them was where I just sort of quit off the back of a meeting. I literally then just handed my notice in.

12:01

I think I reached that final point and then I was just like, well, I don't know what to do now, but I was just like, oh shit, oh no, and I went around to all the other sort of companies where I could sort of tout my wares and show what I could do in a marketing.

12:19

And they were all the same. It was just a different logo but the same stuff. And so I thought, well, I'm just going to have to start my own business and do marketing the way I want to, which is people centric, really people centric, and that cares about the impact that you want to make, whether that's a planetary, whether that's a people, whether that's using all your funds and your prosperity for good. So, yeah, accidental, never thought, never wanted to be an entrepreneur, always thought I was a pencil-skirted, you know, high-heel wear corporate lady. And so, yeah, and so it was an Accidental, complete accident, and I think that shows that there's always that something inside you that drives you on and it's scary, but if it's meant to be, it comes through. So my story is the niche whispering, really.

13:15 - Debbie (Host)

It's so interesting to hear that and because I guess I've only ever known you in your current context and to me this feels like it really feels like you're natural, like you're in your element. You know, when you hear people like they're in that flow and doing the thing that they're meant to do, you're like to me that really it really comes across from you and it's hard for me to imagine you in this different setting. And yet I imagine that actually part of that experience has been useful and has carried over with you as well.

13:50

Yeah, definitely, it's just like I don't know, using it in a different way or something.

13:57 - Rachael (Guest)

Yeah, it's interesting because I always felt like I was wearing the uniform of the corporate lady, the corporate left, and I always felt at odds with it. So that was the thing. So there was this friction, this tension between what I thought I wanted and probably did at a certain point in my life and the path to get it, but actually sometimes not even believing it. So there was always something inside of me where I felt I had to have my edges rounded off Like this I remember just being in a meeting, walking past the meeting room and it was all glass there, and seeing one of my friends and stopping and she was looking at me in this very posh meeting and I was outside going no, no, no, no, no, no, I don't make any faces at her and then the big boss turned around and saw me falling around and that was it. Suddenly I was back to oh, I'm not going to be.

14:50

So the real me at that moment was just like, well, let's make fun of this and let's have it be a bit silly, and then not. So that's a little kind of vignette of this friction of Rachel in corporate life.

15:05 - Debbie (Host)

Yeah, I can, but it's so. From that, it's so apparent to me now that what I see is really core to your work and I think you might have said this explicitly in one of your recent newsletters actually is that core to what you do is supporting finders and business owners like get to know themselves first, so that they can then know the work that they're best suited to. And I actually I noted down a quote I'm not sure if it was the newsletter or social posts, but you said the more you choose to be yourself on the page, the more you'll find yourself in real life.

15:49

And then it's a practice or a mirror, and so I wonder like how, how writing has influenced your journey and that like getting to know yourself in the transition from that like rounded edges place to where you are now.

16:08 - Rachael (Guest)

Yeah, absolutely huge, hugely. It's interesting I was never a writer. When I was in my core code job, I did an English degree, but I'm not trained copywriter or anything. But all of a sudden, unleashing this person, the only way I could make sense of what I was thinking was just to write it down and I had it on post it notes and I had it in books and it was like a version of this version to have. That I just wrote and wrote and wrote and that I literally did find myself on the page and continue to find myself on the page, and I think that's my.

16:39

We all have a way of expressing ourselves and that's my, that's my and I think it's my gift. Actually, you know, I really enjoy writing and I get some really lovely feedback on my writing, but it's just allows me to make sense. So we all have these nuts ideas going around our head like several every day. You know you have an idea for an offer, you have an idea for a social post, you have an idea of something you want to say like a big oh my God, why is that wrong? Let me think about it. And writing long form and this is I'm a big stickler for writing long form. You know, I know everyone's got the attention span and a nat, but I still believe that well craft is thought out. Articles that are engaging and written well will surpass any 244 characters or Instagram posts etc.

17:32

You know because you have a whole argument presented in on a page and it's very compelling, and so that's why I advocate for writing, always writing, and, yes, doing it If you, if, if it's do, or LinkedIn. Of course you need to be able to sort of express it in chunks, but I don't think you can do that sort of edited version until you've done that full expression of it. So, yeah, writing to my medium for sure.

18:03 - Debbie (Host)

Hmm, so wonder, like has has the process of writing helped you gain clarity about, like, what didn't work in the corporate world? Like because, like what you just described to me there sounded like like you've got a good handle, and like what bits didn't fit for you at that time, but like I wonder if you would have been able to describe it that way at the time, like when you were there?

18:29 - Rachael (Guest)

No, I don't think I would have. I don't think I had the space, the clarity, the distance or the distance is important and also the my writing would have been too self conscious, I think in that time. Now I write and sometimes I just write for kicks, that's just to get an idea down on paper and wonder what it looks like.

18:50

It's not that I'm going to turn it into a blog post or it's going to go anywhere Some of it might but it's just for me, it's my, like you said, I saw where I see myself and then read it back a week later, a couple of days later, and go, oh yeah, oh no, that's Bollocks. So yeah, for me it's always been. I mean, the first article I ever wrote like really the long, for my first newsletter was about me being in this corporate life. So I had enough distance I think we're talking months where I could reflect back on what, where I was and where I want to go, and that was yeah, but there had to be distance there, for sure.

19:31 - Debbie (Host)

Yeah, yeah, there's something about the like I knew whenever I worked in corporate. I didn't like it felt not, you know, the environment felt good and positive, like I definitely wasn't in a you know like a toxic workplace or anything like that. And at the same time, when I came out of it, like I was really really surprised at like how different I felt, like how there's like small nuances of like the day to day. They require you to like show up in a certain way, and when you don't have that, it's like oh wow, who even am I? Who am I in this outside world?

20:13

I think there is something about especially starting your own business. It, you know, on the one hand, it gives you this freedom, but I think it also, like really requires you to look at yourself and look at your surroundings in a different way. And yeah, it sounds like writing, then, has been a real tool to like make sense of all of that.

20:34 - Rachael (Guest)

Yeah, completely, and this is a phrase I heard the other day which I really like is about your inner algorithm, and I think this is when you take yourself out of that environment where it's a nine to five or nine to nine for many people, where it's all about the money, the machine of the machinery of making money, to a world where you're suddenly talking about your energy and how you can work to your own advantage and what? How do you like to express yourself? You've got so many choices and it's scary, really scary, to kind of be. Well, no one's telling me what to do. Yeah, having KPIs and, oh my god, terrifying, but so free. And when you surround yourself with people that are also on this journey, also talking about the same things, or read those articles or listen to this podcast, this is where your inner algorithm gets tweaked and you seek more out and you blossom and grow within that.

21:33 - Debbie (Host)

So yeah, yeah, that's right. It's like trying to find, like, yeah, you're like creating. I mean, yeah, sounds a bit when I'm pausing because I'm like, oh, this sounds like ridiculously corny, but it's like creating your own external environment, somehow like creating your own. I am hesitant to say creating your own reality, but like you know it is it's like seeking out the bit, like what you want to surround yourself with, yeah, as opposed to having that presented to you.

22:01 - Rachael (Guest)

Yes, that's it. It's choice, it's freedom, it's the ability to question the things that we never used to question. Yes, yes everything from the way we don't manage the way we educate our kids. I'm sure we could have a whole nother podcast.

22:18

We definitely, could, we definitely could Just allow you to question different ways. I think we see people being successful who haven't reached those markers, who didn't get to uni or didn't have that A level, didn't have that money put aside, and who are incredibly successful in however you define success, but doing things really joyfully and making a big impact, and that is super, super exciting to see.

22:47 - Debbie (Host)

So I wonder on that, like, what is? What would you say, is the bigger picture? Why behind your work?

22:55 - Rachael (Guest)

Yeah, so I did again of writing. I was writing something last year and it prompted me to think about my experiences through work and the things that I've done in life, and I tracked all the jobs, all the hobbies, all the things that I really enjoyed doing and they've all got one thing in common and that is that I help people connect to their audience. So I'm even going back from my dad used to be an amateur magician and I used to be his magician's assistant, you know, presenting the kind of tricks and presenting to the audience and prancing around in a glittery cave and stuff and all the way through to. You know, you do manage bands and book bands and put festivals on, and my job was always oh my God, you're amazing, you've got something that you want to share. I'm a massive fan. Let's go and find the people to share it.

23:52

And I think that you know that has been the thread. This is a new realization. That's been the thread throughout my life. So my big one really is to help people connect with their audience and audience, but by connecting with themselves first, really understanding themselves on a bit of a deeper level, so they can, you know, so they can show up in all their glory, all their warts, all their you know full flavor and be that person, and that means then the right people will come to them. There's that energy signature, there's that vibe, there's that zing, there's that resonance, whatever you want to call it. The right people find them because they're very clear on who they are themselves. That kind of feels like the why.

24:46 - Debbie (Host)

I feel that in my belly as you said, you know you feel like the thing that goes up your belly and into your chest, so like I really feel that as you describe it, because I think it's so true, and I think that's really that getting like I don't know that really like deep or meaningful or like true connection with another person is possible really to that extent until we have like some degree of that connection with ourselves. And it's a hard thing to do. I think it's a vulnerable thing to do. It is in today's world.

25:21 - Rachael (Guest)

It is and the other part of it, because I think I was so disconnected from myself for so long and, like I said, rounding myself off and hiding myself. I want to help people stop hiding really, and that you know the power shift that I felt in recent months as really that message has just been landed home to me. All the time you know visibility, show up, be yourself right how you write, talk how you talk. Just say the thing. Say the thing and down the consequences cubes going round my head.

25:58

I think that's what I want to help people to do in their own big or little ways. You know, it doesn't have to be grand, it doesn't have to be massive gestures which changing the world. It could be small ways, but I feel increasingly that that's the power that I'm here to help me learn really or share.

26:19 - Debbie (Host)

The thing that's come into my mind, as you share, that is that, like I guess in mainstream marketing, there's this unwritten message, or that we need to like shout the loudest in order to stand out, like the, and like rise to the top of this pyramid. That like very hierarchical system of like stand out as the expert in your field and yes, and the assault leader, yes, yes, and yet there's something there, but like there's like rising to the top, whereas I think that, like what I've really and like very much in from what we worked on, like what I'm really learning is like if we can be more of ourselves, and like build this ecosystem around us, like an ecosystem way of thinking.

27:17

Yeah like you're, naturally you're I don't know you naturally feel more successful, but not in a way where you have to like rise up and shout out about it is just like by being yourself, that, like that is the uniqueness In itself and that is the thing that really makes your business more successful in a really natural way.

27:39

And In a way, yeah, and it's like more respectful and yeah, I think it's just more meaningful, like the success of it isn't like you know, it's not rising to the top of the pyramid. Success, it's success that is like maybe quieter or like smaller in some ways, but just hold so much More weight and meaning and fulfillment.

28:05 - Rachael (Guest)

Yeah, definitely. I mean you can't see, but I've got a poster behind me that says odd one out I don't know if you can see and it's always blue cups and there's a green cup on it and the other one out is obviously the green top but actually in tiny print at the bottom it says it's the last blue cup on the right because it's got sugar in it. I brought that when I was in my corporate life and I don't know why I bought it. I loved it and love the bright colors. But I brought that and I've now realized that's been my talisman for everything that I've done in my life. And just as you said there, it's not about the green, not about being the green cup, not about shouting louder, being crazy and being totally different, finding that sugar within and just quietly, gently, letting people know that you are sweet, you're sugary, you're refreshing, whatever you are, that cup of tea is, and letting people know that I'm letting them come to you.

29:01

And then kind of being the brash shouty one.

29:06 - Debbie (Host)

So that's amazing. That's amazing. So if anybody listening, lets say, recognises them, recognises themselves, is that blue cup with the sugar inside? Do you have like a practical tip to share as to like how? You might start with exploring this internal world of theirs.

29:26 - Rachael (Guest)

Now, I mean it starts with a pen and paper. I would obviously say that anyway. I mean, however you want to write, but it just starts with asking you some, some questions, and these are for me, I think these are the most powerful questions I ask of a client and the first question is just to think about what mission you're going on.

29:46

What is your? What's driving you? Now, mission is a big word and you know I'm not talking has to be like Mother Teresa, change the world kind of thing. But what's that small kind of, you know, that small rebellion, that quiet rebellion that you're trying to make in the world? So that would be my first question, and that could be, could several you know right now down.

30:07

Think about, if that's your quiet rebellion, then who are the people that will most resonate with that? What types of people would really get on board with that quiet rebellion? And and and again, that could be several types of people. But also, what sort of people are not going to get on that? Who are the haters? It's really important to have a bit of a sense of those who aren't going to get on board with it as well, and that takes you through this kind of process, this sort of learning of well, this is my why, or this is my current why. This is what I'm really driven to do, and these are the sort of people. So it might be that it could be For me. My why was well, I want marketing to feel good or I don't want marketing to feel shitty.

30:55

That was the mission when I first left my corporate life and what sort of people would kind of get on board with that. Well, generally at this time I was thinking, oh, is it charities? But then slowly, as I got sort of out into the world, I realized that no, it's these people who are wanting to make a difference in the world. So these are the kind of leaders of groups, people who are activists, et cetera, et cetera. So I had a whole list of all those people who I thought wanted to do marketing differently. So, again, these were ethical people. They were perhaps, you know, in the arts field, et cetera. And then I thought, well, how can I help them? And that's the next question is and how can you help? So I could help them by getting them to understand a little bit more about what drives them, so they can find other people to come on their mission, on their journey, with. So that's my kind of step. So there's a couple of questions there and I'll just repeat them for clarity.

31:53

So what's the mission you're going on, what other people would resonate with that mission, and how do you help them? And once you've got that down, in whatever scrappy form, you can go out and ask people. You can find those people in this group. So maybe it's the yoga teachers or people who are in sort of you know sustainability ago, and talk to them and just go. Is this a problem? You're finding what's the situation you're in and what would you like to happen, and then suddenly you're just doing your own market research and you're putting yourself in the place where other people who want to get on board with you are in. So it's not about splatting everything on social, it's just being a little bit more targeted and a little bit more gentle less and more effective ultimately.

32:46 - Debbie (Host)

Yeah, yeah, I love it. And what a powerful way to start. I wonder. I don't want to put you on the spot here, but I know you're a real connector, and so I wonder, if people have a go at those questions, if you would be out for them. It's like sending through their answers to you.

33:08 - Rachael (Guest)

Oh yeah, absolutely, I'd love that. Yeah, I'm always happy to jump on a call with someone and just help them make some sense of their random thoughts, so absolutely always. And you know, there's a resource that I'd really recommend. That is this book called the Wider's Net by Pamela Slim, and it's effectively it's my, I guess it's. She wrote the book before I could get to write it. Well, her race is done the work, but it's effectively what I'm saying You've got to really discover yourself first, and then go and find the watering holes she calls them.

33:43

So it's the place where those people hang out, and then you could, you know, have a conversation with them and invite them to join you or you join them, build a community, whatever it is you need to do. So it's just a really gentle, beautiful way of you know doing marketing.

34:03 - Debbie (Host)

I mean, it's not even marketing.

34:04 - Rachael (Guest)

It's about connecting. Really. That's how it is.

34:08 - Debbie (Host)

I've seen you break down these like tiny marketing actions that like take away so much of the like scariness or because it is. It's like it's an intimidating or like vulnerable thing to do for all sorts of very good reasons, and I love those ways that you've broken it down into like very practical, small scale steps that are doable within like 15 minutes.

34:32 - Rachael (Guest)

Yeah.

34:32 - Debbie (Host)

With a cup of coffee. Yeah, sure. Yeah.

34:36 - Rachael (Guest)

Always have to be massive, great. You know, ownerless marketing tasks that meet. You feel terrible. They're just about slowly like in. What can you do in 30 minutes where you can reach out to someone on on LinkedIn or Instagram or whoever? Whoever you are, you can make a nice comment on someone's post. You could even write a little kind of post yourself. You could, you know, go and introduce yourself in a group that you've been meaning to introduce yourself to. You know, it's all. It all ladders up. It's small, consistent actions that all ladder up.

35:09 - Debbie (Host)

So, yes, and I think that word consistent, that's for me, it's really. This is like what something I really believe in my work as well is making things sustainable. So, like these small things, the real game changer for me, the real thing for them is that they're actually sustainable and enjoyable and fun and something to actually look forward to, as opposed to like what I've done before, which is the like blue, white actions, and then it's like, oh no, I need to go and like hibernate Completely.

35:38 - Rachael (Guest)

But we're going to hangover. Yeah, exactly, exactly.

35:44 - Debbie (Host)

So I wonder if I'm just a wrap up I wonder if you could share where we can find out more about you and your work and all these amazing, practical, like generous guides you have to share.

35:56 - Rachael (Guest)

Okay, so I love using LinkedIn. I find it really fun to be on there Some wonderful people on there. So LinkedIn is my social of choice. And so I'm Rachel Hyphen, the feed marketing. So come and find me on there. My website is feedmarketinggg, and I have my calendars always open for a coffee chat, for a bit of support, for a oh gosh. I think this might be my niche, but it feels scary or it doesn't feel right. Conversation. I absolutely love those. So yeah, that's, it's my joy to just help people navigate this. Really.

36:34 - Debbie (Host)

Amazing, amazing. And I just want to say finally, like how you really really really like walk the talk like you're like everything about your website, your newsletter, your right, your LinkedIn posts. Even they just filled with like your personality. So like it's been, you know I really got, I've really enjoyed getting to know you through like real person conversations, but like. I really get that a sense, the bigger sense of you through your work as well, like shines through.

37:02 - Rachael (Guest)

Oh, thank you.

37:03 - Debbie (Host)

Like. Thank you for bringing all of that.

37:06 - Rachael (Guest)

Oh, amazing, that's lovely. I mean, I did say when key on this podcast, so that's there, we go there, we go, thank you Well, thank you so much for your time, rachel.

37:18 - Debbie (Host)

It's been such a pleasure as always. Thank you, yeah, look forward to seeing you again soon.

37:24 - Rachael (Guest)

All right, take care.

37:25 - Debbie (Host)

Bye. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Beyond Business. If you've loved what you've heard, I would be incredibly grateful if you could rate and review the podcast so that together we can create a global ecosystem of change makers, pioneering business as a force for good. Until then, I look forward to speaking to you in the next episode.

Debbie Lee
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