Episode 16

Ethical Branding with Nathalie Alburjas

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EPISODE SUMMARY

Join me on this episode where I’m talking with Nathalie Alburjas of Utterly Create, where she helps conscious entrepreneurs to strengthen their business by unlocking their brand's true potential.

Nathalie's approach works from the inside out, taking what lies at the core of your business and helping you to present that to the outside world in a way that feels good.

During the conversation we dive into:

➡️ What branding is and what makes Nathalie’s approach different

➡️ Why branding matters as a conscious business owner

➡️ What makes a brand stand out as ethical

➡️ Common challenges business owners have when it comes to branding

➡️ The benefits of getting it right

CONNECT WITH NATHALIE

If you would like to find out more about Nathalie and her work in Ethical Branding you can do so in the following places:

• Instagram: @utterlycreate

• Website: www.utterlycreate.com

• Book a chat: /contact

MORE WAYS TO GO BEYOND BUSINESS

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• Send it on using this link www.debbielee.co.uk/podcast

Got a topic you’d like to request or a guest to recommend? Drop me an email

EPISODE TRANSCRIPTION

00:03 - Debbie (Host)

Welcome to Beyond Business, the podcast, the show for impact-driven eco-preneurs who want to be part of a bigger change and make a difference that reaches beyond your business alone. Natalie is the founder of Utterly Create, where she is at the core of your business and making sure that it's that that is demonstrated on the outside. She believes that this approach is not only more effective but also more ethical, and that's what we dive into in today's episode. So I hope you enjoy the conversation. Enjoy the conversation. Okay, here we go. Good morning. I wonder how you are doing this morning.

01:10 - Nathalie (Guest)

Hi, debbie, hi, I'm excited, I'm excited, a little nervous as well, I'm not gonna lie.

01:23 - Debbie (Host)

But, yeah, overall excited. Yeah, you're so welcome. I've been so so, so looking forward to our conversation and I'm really intrigued, actually what will come out of it, because I suspect that I will learn something from our chat this morning too, talking all about ethical branding. So you describe yourself as an ethical brand designer.

01:41 - Nathalie (Guest)

Yes.

01:42 - Debbie (Host)

And I have found that branding is one of those terms that means slightly different things to different people, and so I wonder, to start off with, if you could tell us a little bit more about what branding means to you to me.

02:02 - Nathalie (Guest)

To me specifically, I mean branding means um is the way we present something we love into the world, and I'm talking about branding like the ethical branding that I do. I would say it's the way I present something I love that is inside into the world and that often shows us that will be from your messaging, so the way you communicate it in words, the look and feel, so the sensations you get from it. Let's say, a brand can feel serious, a brand can feel fun, and then there's the translation. That's where we come into the design. So how do I translate that? So, normally, what will happen? Let's say, if I see you as a brand, you have your core, which is your heart. Your heart is inside. I can't see it, so we start with that. You can't see it, you know, so we start with that.

03:04

You can't see it but then you have your structure, your bones, so that's kind of like that that's like. But let's say, maybe that's your messaging, I don't know what the structure of the bones would be, your core values. Let's say and then you've got your skin and then you start, you know, I can start to see and feel you, and then you choose how you're going to wear that and present it. Does that, does that make sense?

03:31 - Debbie (Host)

Yeah, it does it really. What it draws to mind for me is that classic iceberg analogy where I know instinctively like certainly when I started in the world of online business um, like to me, a brand was all about the logo and the colors that I chose, and I spent countless hours agonizing over those things and I use. I think there's a lot of free tools online now where you can go and auto create oh yeah and yeah early is your oyster when it comes to the sign.

04:13

Yes, it's a good thing it is. It's a good and it I I really find it good to give me, like it, give me a place to start. You know, it was better I it just gave me something very quickly and I could get going with that. But what I did find was I I changed that quite a lot and I didn't really understand why at the time, but when I hear you describe it in that way, it's like the logo and the colors are almost like the tip of the iceberg, yeah, and everything else everything else is underneath and the very important thing about branding, and we're talking, we're focusing branding specifically on business, like it has to be aligned with the business.

04:56 - Nathalie (Guest)

They go hand in hand. So so, uh, it's not like the business is over here and the brand is here. No, the brand is like it goes with the business together, because that's how you can strongly and effectively communicate what you're about.

05:15 - Debbie (Host)

Yeah, and I can see that it's almost then to have a brand, to have a meaningful brand, and I mean a brand that's meaningful to you as a business owner, like I guess you have to dive into all that.

05:27 - Nathalie (Guest)

Yeah, you have to yeah you have to dive in there's no there's no way around it.

05:33

I mean there is a way around it, you don't have to.

05:35

I mean, not everyone dives in, but I feel like when you, when you do choose to dive in, and of course, as like, depending where you're at in your business, you know the dive would be slightly different. Because if you're just starting, you know there's a lot of trial and error to trial your business or like the business model, the idea that you want to test the niche that you want to test, but but the branding starts with knowing your values as a business. The mission, like your mission, and all of those, most of the time are deeply personal, especially with ethical companies. You know ethical businesses or you know, you know, from a coach to, let's say, one of my clients who I love, they do um chocolate like they have been to bar um, but they do chocolate like really the ethical way, like the chocolate industry is very unethical and they do it the ethical way. So it can go from from like that you can be just a personal brand to someone that actually has product oh, and that's yeah, this is, this is the um.

06:48 - Debbie (Host)

That was going to be my next question. Actually, I'm really intrigued that by the, the ethical in ethical branding, and I wondered so for you what is the ethical part of your work all about?

07:04 - Nathalie (Guest)

Good question, I think, for me, the ethical part about my work. Well, I would like to start with how I actually move in the world, because that's my ethical part and always, like, I've been working for myself for many years, but before working for myself, I worked in agencies and I've always had in me, like you know, to treat people with respect, whether you're the CEO or the junior designer that just started, everyone is treated with respect, with dignity, not exploding, not lying. I'm like that in my relationships. You know my personal relationships at work, so that for me, that ethical, uh, you know my personal relationships at work, so that for me, that that ethical, you know um way of moving, um, I link, I link it into branding so that shows us. So, for example, branding, business and marketing are very intertwined. So there's a lot of ways to do business which is kind of like, you know, close the sale, close the sale no matter what, close the sale. So there's a lot of tricks to manipulate people because we are, um, how do you say, is this susceptible?

08:28 - Debbie (Host)

or influential.

08:29 - Nathalie (Guest)

Yes, uh, you know, uh, into making you feel like you're gonna miss out on something great, like this offer is gonna end in three days, or I can pretend like I'm a big agency with like 10 people. You know, if I start putting on my website like we do this and we do that just to pretend I'm bigger, you know, all of these things kind of like go against my, my way of moving in the world. So I don't know if that answers the question around ethical branding. I would say it's like an ethical way of moving and you know it spreads beyond branding.

09:06

It's just how we, you know how we choose. It's a conscious decision to be to live from integrity, transparency. You know, to take the best interests of people at heart, and if that translate into a brand that has a product, for example, that would be. I'm not going to give you something that would harm you yeah, oh, I love it.

09:29 - Debbie (Host)

Um yeah, so what you've just described there really links me back to your first answer as well. So it sounds like for you, in creating your own brand, you have taken what is inside of you and then carried that through onto the outside yes, yeah, yeah, that that could be said and that was a choice as well.

09:55 - Nathalie (Guest)

It was interesting because and this is the thing with the business journey actually I have was working, I'm working with a fabulous coach and she helped me kind of like say, natalie, you're all about ethical, and, of course, because I've had that since I started graphic design and I've always been in the branding side of thing and strategic um, I've always been like that I couldn't, so I wouldn't be able to put it right into words, but then when it finally landed, it's like oh so I guess in the journey it's like sometimes you, you hold, like you keep like you have a diamond and you keep like, polishing it, polishing it, polishing and polishing it, but the diamond doesn't change, it just becomes clearer and clearer and clearer and clearer.

10:41 - Debbie (Host)

I love that. Yeah, I could see, and it sounds like this clearer. I love that. Yeah, I can see, and it sounds like this has always been something that has been really core to you. It's just been finding the way.

10:54 - Nathalie (Guest)

Yeah, it's just been finding yes, finding the way, and it's also something that I have with branding, that I have in me as a person I love. I love like, for me, communication. It's I don't know what the word is right now, but it's like I'm so curious about the way we communicate, how we communicate what's the most effective way, and in every level. So I've done my own, I'm still doing it like it's ongoing, like my own personal work. You know I've done my own and still doing it Like it's ongoing, like my own personal work. You know I've done various therapies, personal growth programs, retreats, anything that will help me, kind of like learn about communication. I'm a transformational coach as well and, of course, that links as well into branding, branding, design.

11:53 - Debbie (Host)

It's all about communication, all of it so true, and one of the things I was curious to know more about is whether you see some common challenges in amongst the people that you work with, like what are maybe some of the common challenges that people face when they're creating their brand? And I imagine that really plays into that transformational coaching bit, because it's yeah, it is such a personal. It's like creating a brand is such a personal thing yeah, it is.

12:30 - Nathalie (Guest)

It is very personal, especially for I don't know, let's say, change makers like us, you know, and also people that I work a lot with, solopreneurs as well, so that often is just them, um, thinking about it. They don't have a team behind to support them. So let me think about uh, you know, i'm'm just going to tap into some of my clients. One challenge they face actually some clients face is they often come with a lot of tools. They prepare themselves. You know they could have studied mindfulness of the embodiment and the yoga and the do, and they have all of these. How do you say array or yeah.

13:21

Like a set of beautiful things that they bring, but they don't know how to communicate it. So it's concise, you know.

13:31 - Debbie (Host)

Yes.

13:36 - Nathalie (Guest)

It's like, hey, I, I'm, I don't know, I'm debbie and I I'm a yoga instructor and I am a psychologist and I'm this, you know, and I'm that, and that that could end up confusing the person. So that's one of the challenges and that comes to messaging and that comes with diving down into your business and you know what it is that lights you up and how to package it. So when I say package it, how to communicate it so it doesn't confuse the audience you know so it's clear.

14:09 - Debbie (Host)

Yeah, I really get that because I do. Yeah, I really get that because I do. Um, especially, there's something I have found that is maybe in particular to conscious business owners, where I guess many people have the yeah, many strings to their bow. I guess it's like building up this toolkit that is very full of like lots of different modalities that, yeah, could be used for lots of different things, and, yeah, when I hear you describe it that way, it's like part of your work, then is helping people see the commonality in all of those things, like what's core to it yes, exactly so, exactly so.

14:52 - Nathalie (Guest)

for example, one thing could be you can bring like a whole set of tools and modalities that you've learned but like, let's say, you're focusing on a particular niche, that niche is coming to you because they all have. That niche, in particular, has a shared problem. So you can be a yoga instructor, a coach, you know many, many things, but you're actually helping people, let's say, with anxiety, yeah, and these things are a tool. So one of the challenges my clients face is because they're too close, they're in their own skin, they cannot see exactly what it is. Because they're too close, they're in their own skin, they cannot see exactly what it is that they're bringing in with. It's almost without, with an arrow, um, targeted way.

15:42

you know yeah this is what you bring. You know you're, you're a transformational agent. Oh look, I'll do all of this you do. That way it's easier, because then I combine this and that Another challenge they could bring as well it's, I would say, maybe some there's something around actually pinning like I would say, pinning down the way they're gonna look and feel for some of them can feel scary.

16:16 - Debbie (Host)

The design process can feel scary for them yeah, I understand that I and I imagine, yeah, for me that hits. I can feel that in my body actually a little bit. Oh yes, I can see why and for me there's something in the commitment.

16:34 - Nathalie (Guest)

Yeah commitment issues we like oh. I don't want to. Also, if I have that color, I was like what if tomorrow, I feel like uh my blue instead of yellow. Yeah, yeah, yeah, they do.

16:48 - Debbie (Host)

There's that. And then I think there's the really like very real vulnerability of sharing more of yourself and making yourself more visible and knowing that, yes, maybe the thing that people see is a logo and colours and a specific font, but that's really meaningful to you and really represents something about you, and then to share that with other people, there's a real vulnerability there is a very, very vulnerable process, all from the reviewing of your business to looking into your core message to then defining how it's going to look and it's going to feel.

17:31 - Nathalie (Guest)

I know because I did the process last year. I did my own process and I was, you know. I had someone that was accompanying me like a coach, who was kind of like, okay, I'll hold you during my own process and I could really really feel so vulnerable like not knowing. We love knowing and in the, in any brand creation, it's a, it's a creative process and in the in creativity?

18:02 - Debbie (Host)

you don't know yeah, and it can take several cycles as well. That's like I think it's something that almost can't can't be rushed. I know that that's a big part of your message, um yeah, it can't be.

18:18 - Nathalie (Guest)

It can be what you do. You can give it a structure, you know, for it to flourish. Yeah, that you can do, but I don't, yeah, I don't. I really don't like rushing there. There does come a point, though, that maybe a client might be facing the like you know, when the perfectionist kicks in, they start procrastinating and things like that. Then I can kind of like sense. It's like ah, remember, it doesn't have to be perfect, because it's a lot of things that you don't know right now oh you actually feel them.

18:48

They're inside, but you need to bring them out, and for that first you have to go through chaos, and we don't like going through that especially the perfectionists the man has especially because, once you have it, it's like wow, so simple of course it was obvious all along.

19:16

I wonder then would you say it's ever too early to work on your brand, it's ever too early to work on your brand? I would say, no, it's never too early to work on the brand the moment you have, but maybe too early to start on, let's say, building a solid. Let's say building a solid like brand. That's the one that's gonna move you. So you. So let's say, like, if you're starting, uh, and like I said, you're, you're testing your business model, you're testing your idea, uh, you're testing your niche. You're still not sure about the niche, you know, I, I, my advice would be why invest in something that might change along the way? You know, try it first.

20:00

But then, even when you do that, you can still work on your brand because, um, that already, uh, having a business review, just like, think why you want to do what you want to do, who you want to help. You know what's different about you, what sets you apart, all of those things. You can already start the process with messaging. It will make it easier, I don't know, it will streamline some of your processes and you can trial it, you know, and let's say, with a very simple like I said, like, okay, this Canva and this other things you know. A very simple style sheet that gives you two or three colours, and just try it. Simple website, one page. Maybe you know there's many ways. Yeah, does that?

20:52 - Debbie (Host)

answer the question. It really does and, um, it reminds me of the way that you structure your offers as well. That, I think, is so unique.

21:07 - Nathalie (Guest)

I've never seen any other brand designer do it that way, and I know it's really designed to support people along those different stages yeah, yeah, because if you're just starting, I'm not like, I'm not gonna say to you build a five-page website with your processes and all of that. No, I don't think it's, I don't know, it's not ethical because it takes me back to this.

21:33 - Debbie (Host)

It's like the one thing. I get done often is like I will design a brand for you. That will be. You know, that's what will make your business successful. And yet if the all that underlying work hasn't been done, it doesn't matter how nice your website looks how polished everything is like it's not gonna, it's not gonna gel and it's not gonna work it's not gonna gel like the.

21:59 - Nathalie (Guest)

The strongest thing is your message. That is the key to you know, to to everything else. So I, I would. Yeah, that's why I offer the package just like that. Because, first, it's the review. You need to have a review because it is the part where the strategy is um and your message. So it's really really clear, because this um, if you go like um, I serve everyone, no, you, you don't. You don't serve everyone. You don't want to serve everyone. No, you don't, you don't serve everyone. You don't want to serve everyone, because there are people out there that you don't want to work with. For example, there are not so great, nice, respectful people out there that would think that because they're hiring me, I have to somehow.

22:50 - Debbie (Host)

You know they're not very nice, or?

22:58 - Nathalie (Guest)

friendly. Yes, I don't want to work with those people. Yeah, so you don't want to work?

23:01 - Debbie (Host)

with everyone. Yeah, I really see that. It's like a brand that has to be ethical at its core in order to really present as being ethical or be received, let's say, as being ethical on the outside. Yeah, I love that. Um, so what would you say are some of the benefits for the business owner? For I'm going to use air quotes when I say getting it right, but, like you know, going through this process with you, what are some of the the the benefits for the business owners that you work with?

23:36 - Nathalie (Guest)

So they're different because the business will be in different stages. But let's say I could talk. Let's say, if you're starting out, one of the benefits of working in your brand, especially the first stages, like, like you said, like business review and the message and maybe just a simple look and feel um, I think it gives you structure and it simplifies the putting your message out there. You don't have to be thinking of colours and all of that and the message will be clear. I think that's one if you're starting, if you already have established, like, if you're already established, and let's say you did, you did your, your brand yourself and your message is is strong but could be improved.

24:37

Um, but let's say, another challenge I find with the clients that are like that is that they have, uh, brand shame website, because they're actually getting a lot of clients, but they're like oh, it's like I'm gonna show you my own tidy house. I'm sorry about that. The clients don't care because they already trust the person, but you're like oh, you know. So one of the benefits is that you have a brand that you feel so proud of and they actually boosts you and inspires you to share it. Um, so, and I mean there's a massive benefits.

25:19

One of the things that I feel about branding and and you know, because I say like your brand needs to resonate with your audience needs to connect with your audience, but I believe that your brand should also resonate with you, because when your brand resonates with you and with your audience as well, of course it needs to go both ways Because when your brand resonates with you, you get excited to say like, oh yeah, I'm going to write that post and talk about this message, which is part of my brand. I'm going to, um, do that real with my colors, because you know it's like you have a house that you want to show yeah, I really see that and I mean shout out to your brand, for you know the ultimate example of that.

26:09 - Debbie (Host)

I love your brand, like it's always felt really, really appealing to me and really eye catching and really representative of you.

26:16

And I saw a social media post that you did a few days ago, maybe even a few weeks ago, and it was all about how you've designed your brand around being a leopard oh yeah, the leopard yeah yeah, my power, the power animal behind my brand, yes, and I was like that is so awesome because I can see how you know if you embody the energy of a leopard every time you put something out there like hi, cool is that you know it does, yeah, it does, yeah, it feels empowering.

26:53 - Nathalie (Guest)

You know, and that's the way I like to design my brands for my clients as well, and I get that from the. You know, once we do the process, they, they fall in love with their brand so much that I mean, when you're in love with something, you just want to share it and that's great, because if you're doing, you're bringing great work into the world. You know you're helping bring positive change. I want that, I want you to succeed, I want you to want to share, yeah yeah, we need that's like.

27:27

It really reminds me of like helping those brands take up more space yeah, in the world, yeah, yeah, and I've had clients that some of the after the process that's what they say they say, wow, it's like I'm in love with my brand. I love it so I just share it and I'm so connected with it that that's the difference between, let's say, if you are, um, that was the thing is. So people get so hooked into their ah. They design the design because it's uh, how to say, palpable. You can see it. But there's so much more strategy and thinking behind that, and the reason for that is I want you to be connected to the brand we're going to create.

28:11 - Debbie (Host)

Yeah.

28:12 - Nathalie (Guest)

Or that you're going to help me create the brand. I mean, we're going to create it together. It's a co-creation, but it's your baby. You need to be involved in it because you need to be connected to it. That way your brand can give you that, because you need to be connected to it. That way your brand can give you that. I mean, for me it's the leopard, because, as a designer, there's a tendency and it's not right or wrong, you know, it's just it's a tendency. You know, I could have gone for the, which I also love minimalistic, very stylish but I was thinking God. But I need to feel power in my brand. I need my brand to boost me and give me that.

28:51 - Debbie (Host)

Yeah, I needed that. Push that fire. I hear that like fire in your belly feeling yeah, yeah.

28:57 - Nathalie (Guest)

So I'm just I thought, well, okay, off it goes, no, no, no stylish or clean or tone down and it's nice, I love it. Like whenever I see a designer or a website I say that I'm like, oh, it's so nice and relaxing, but for me, right now, my brand is working and I love it.

29:17 - Debbie (Host)

That feels like the perfect note to wrap us up on, because what I wanted to ask to finish up with was whether you could share more about where people can find you online. So if anyone's listening to this conversation and thinking, yes, like I want to go deeper with my brand, I want more simplicity and like knowing that I have, I've got the thing to share. Or, you say, if they want to have that real feel-good factor, where they want to really share their brand and put it out there in the world and tell everybody about it, where can they?

29:54

go to find out more about you and your work.

29:58 - Nathalie (Guest)

Sure, well, they can visit my website because there I have also a lot of information about ethical branding and how the process of branding um is with me. Uh, that's the utterly createcom. Uh, they can. They can also follow me on instagram at utterly create um. I have a facebook page with which I've just kind of like started.

30:26

Amazing, I've been very busy with. I can be busy with other my clients' socials, but not with me. But I know it's important to give my business the time it serves. It's also at utterlycreatecom and other ways to. How would you say, like, connect with me? I offer a brand and coffee talk. Or like to have a chat with me for free? Like, I won't push any sales or anything like that, but if you're curious, we can have a talk, we can connect. You will find that on my website if you go to connect, and also on Instagram as well. There's a link to to book it um, and also if you're curious to know what I think about your brand. I'm not, I swear, I'm not gonna trash that. I'm just gonna tell you what works and what can be improved.

31:17 - Debbie (Host)

Debbie has I've tried and tested and it was wonderful she has tried and tested.

31:23 - Nathalie (Guest)

Yeah, I often offer like two live reviews per month and that you can also find on my I think on my Instagram. I have a link to that fantastic, awesome.

31:38 - Debbie (Host)

Thank you. I would highly encourage anyone listening to go and check out your website just to see how beautiful it is and so well laid out, and I know on there as well, you have a portfolio section. Yes, that's. It gives people inspiration and ideas for some of the projects you've worked on as well, yes, yeah, the projects that I co-created with my clients awesome.

32:03 - Nathalie (Guest)

Awesome. They always bring so much to it.

32:07 - Debbie (Host)

Yeah, yeah, I see that. I know I follow quite a few of the people you've worked with and I know like I've seen people stick with their designs for years and years and years, which says so much yes, yeah. Well, thank you so much for your time this morning. It's been such a delight and a pleasure to connect and spend time together and chat in this way, and I'm really looking forward to sharing this conversation far and wide. Thank you, debbie. Thank you so much for having me Enjoy the rest of your day. Bye, you too, bye. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of beyond business. If you've loved what you've heard, I would be incredibly grateful if you could rate and review the podcast so that together we can create a global ecosystem of change makers, pioneering business as a force for good. Until then, I look forward to speaking to you in the next episode.